2ndPath
Sep 1, 01:44 PM
One more thing... they'll change the name from iMac to Mac, bringing a perfect symmetry to their product line-up:
Mac
Mac Pro
MacBook
MacBook Pro
It brings more symetry (but then you still need the MacBook Mini), but it would eliminate the "i", which appears to be an important trademark for Apple, as it is included in the name of many products.
Mac
Mac Pro
MacBook
MacBook Pro
It brings more symetry (but then you still need the MacBook Mini), but it would eliminate the "i", which appears to be an important trademark for Apple, as it is included in the name of many products.
islanders
Dec 29, 08:04 PM
I entirely DISagree :)
It's the cost and convenience that will determine how successful iTS downloads are. I would hope for DVD quality (including surround sound).
One day I'll have a HD screen and I'll be wanting to use a HD service.. so it'd be good for Apple to have a plan there for that :)
Good point.
But it seems like most people are dying for HD over here. We have quite a few cable and satellite providers that have HD and who ever offers the most channel, people are going to choose that one. Comcast is supposed to roll out 20 more HD channels in 07. The same goes for the others.
Direct TV which is one of the major satellite providers didn�t anticipate the demand for HD DVD and they were on back order for months, about a month ago, when I was choosing a cable provider. You buy that HD DVD for $200, a two year contract for HD, and rent the box then return it. (yeah right?) And you had to get on a waiting list.
I don�t think anyone anticipated the demand for HD. People watch programs they normally wouldn�t if it�s HD.
There are still a lot of analog cable subscribers on Comcast, you don�t need a digital box, but they are going to be forced to use digital so Comcast can make room on the bandwidth for more HD channels.
Digital 480p isn�t bad, but it�s 4:3 aspect.
I would say PQ is the highest concern. And I agree price is also right up there, and it�s a different market.
It's the cost and convenience that will determine how successful iTS downloads are. I would hope for DVD quality (including surround sound).
One day I'll have a HD screen and I'll be wanting to use a HD service.. so it'd be good for Apple to have a plan there for that :)
Good point.
But it seems like most people are dying for HD over here. We have quite a few cable and satellite providers that have HD and who ever offers the most channel, people are going to choose that one. Comcast is supposed to roll out 20 more HD channels in 07. The same goes for the others.
Direct TV which is one of the major satellite providers didn�t anticipate the demand for HD DVD and they were on back order for months, about a month ago, when I was choosing a cable provider. You buy that HD DVD for $200, a two year contract for HD, and rent the box then return it. (yeah right?) And you had to get on a waiting list.
I don�t think anyone anticipated the demand for HD. People watch programs they normally wouldn�t if it�s HD.
There are still a lot of analog cable subscribers on Comcast, you don�t need a digital box, but they are going to be forced to use digital so Comcast can make room on the bandwidth for more HD channels.
Digital 480p isn�t bad, but it�s 4:3 aspect.
I would say PQ is the highest concern. And I agree price is also right up there, and it�s a different market.
Dont Hurt Me
Sep 1, 01:35 PM
Talking about the iMac chin, isn't it time for a new-look iMac? I couldn't imagine a 23" wide chin :eek:They need to get rid of the chin, it looks like crap in my view so lets hope for a all new line and no more pod looking iMacs. I admit this sounds nice but would rather see a decent consumer tower.
Tymmz
Sep 1, 02:12 PM
You what? Well I guess its a matter of opinion but a 17" with a decent resolution is plenty! Heck, I even know people who use a 15" MBP as a desktop replacement. :)
i use a 12'' PB as my "desktop replacement". but if i want a "real" desktop 17'' would be way to small. why not get a laptop in the first place, if you are willing to go with a 17'' desktop.
i use a 12'' PB as my "desktop replacement". but if i want a "real" desktop 17'' would be way to small. why not get a laptop in the first place, if you are willing to go with a 17'' desktop.
KirkL
Mar 31, 06:40 AM
Can you post a screenshot?
http://d2omthbq56rzfx.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screen-Shot-2011-03-30-at-9.31.06-PM-670x462.png
http://d2omthbq56rzfx.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screen-Shot-2011-03-30-at-9.31.06-PM-670x462.png
netdog
Aug 25, 12:04 PM
Why would updated mac minis be such a high security product. Its nothing revolutionary so why would apple want so much security on the shipping of them? Im hoping for something BIG
Now you're talking. I want my iFon
Now you're talking. I want my iFon
Tmelon
Apr 3, 08:39 PM
I have the same thing happens with my safari in full screen where you hover your mouse over the top and the menubar slide down it is a bug because it the bar serve no function right now -that definitely did happen in DP!
Although Safari has not crashed yet where it crash several time a day in DP1
Edit: I just was scrolling in full screen and Safari crashed for the first time since I used DP2
I had that yesterday actually. It went away though.
Although Safari has not crashed yet where it crash several time a day in DP1
Edit: I just was scrolling in full screen and Safari crashed for the first time since I used DP2
I had that yesterday actually. It went away though.
quaternio
Mar 25, 07:05 PM
Wireless controllers for iPad and TV dock or something please.
Actually, I don't think there's any reason someone couldn't develop a way to use a PS3 controller with an iOS device. It would probably take some work, and Apple wouldn't allow it in the App Store, but I don't see why it can't be done right now. I mean, I use a PS3 as a mouse for my TV Mac Mini.
Actually, I don't think there's any reason someone couldn't develop a way to use a PS3 controller with an iOS device. It would probably take some work, and Apple wouldn't allow it in the App Store, but I don't see why it can't be done right now. I mean, I use a PS3 as a mouse for my TV Mac Mini.
MacFly123
Mar 26, 11:06 PM
Sounds really awesome! And AppleTV was the first thing on my mind about this too..
Now, I know we're all wishing this to happen.
But is there already a method in place of being able to create this?
Can Developers do this....? But, they haven't got round to it yet?!
Or have Apple not opened this up to be created yet?
You can utilize it in some ways with the current APIs but in order to really AirPlay apps to the Apple TV, Apple would need to add some additional APIs for more functionality.
That is why this developer is doing this by way of the HDMI adaptor. Right now you can only AirPlay audio, pictures, or video, but not mirroring or pushing a separate video feed.
If Apple enables AirPlay to stream mirroring or more importantly separate feeds then BOOM, you have an entire ecosystem of apps INSTANTLY on the Apple TV that come from the iPad and iOS devices, but can be AirPlayed into Apple TV mode where the main canvas becomes the TV as the iDevice becomes the secondary canvas to augment the experience and act as the controller! THAT would be AWESOME :) I can really see Apple implementing apps in the Apple TV like this somehow instead of the traditional way people might be thinking. It makes a LOT of sense! :cool:
The second Apple announced AirPlay I predicted that that was how apps would come to the Apple TV, especially with games! I think we are about to see my prediction come true ;) It just makes too much sense! That way Apple still gets to keep the Apple TV pure to the content experience they say consumers want so bad, but if people want to surf the web, or play games, or use apps, they can do that too. It is the best of both worlds! AND it doesn't require an iDevice, but it sure as heck will end up selling millions more for Apple! More iDevices sold, more Apple TVs sold, WIN WIN!
Now, I know we're all wishing this to happen.
But is there already a method in place of being able to create this?
Can Developers do this....? But, they haven't got round to it yet?!
Or have Apple not opened this up to be created yet?
You can utilize it in some ways with the current APIs but in order to really AirPlay apps to the Apple TV, Apple would need to add some additional APIs for more functionality.
That is why this developer is doing this by way of the HDMI adaptor. Right now you can only AirPlay audio, pictures, or video, but not mirroring or pushing a separate video feed.
If Apple enables AirPlay to stream mirroring or more importantly separate feeds then BOOM, you have an entire ecosystem of apps INSTANTLY on the Apple TV that come from the iPad and iOS devices, but can be AirPlayed into Apple TV mode where the main canvas becomes the TV as the iDevice becomes the secondary canvas to augment the experience and act as the controller! THAT would be AWESOME :) I can really see Apple implementing apps in the Apple TV like this somehow instead of the traditional way people might be thinking. It makes a LOT of sense! :cool:
The second Apple announced AirPlay I predicted that that was how apps would come to the Apple TV, especially with games! I think we are about to see my prediction come true ;) It just makes too much sense! That way Apple still gets to keep the Apple TV pure to the content experience they say consumers want so bad, but if people want to surf the web, or play games, or use apps, they can do that too. It is the best of both worlds! AND it doesn't require an iDevice, but it sure as heck will end up selling millions more for Apple! More iDevices sold, more Apple TVs sold, WIN WIN!
lordonuthin
Mar 18, 01:46 PM
Here are monthly stats for our team (http://kakaostats.com/usum.php?u=1628981) designed is kicking some booty! Way to go designed :eek:
Our team stats page (http://kakaostats.com/t.php?t=3446) click in the columns to change the sort
Our team stats page (http://kakaostats.com/t.php?t=3446) click in the columns to change the sort
Chris Bangle
Jan 12, 11:31 AM
I figured out the secret air message!
What falls out of the air? ... Apple (s)
Who do they fall on? ... Newton!
It's the new Newton :apple:
I'd bet nothing on it!
thats quite clever actually... remember apples first logo.
What falls out of the air? ... Apple (s)
Who do they fall on? ... Newton!
It's the new Newton :apple:
I'd bet nothing on it!
thats quite clever actually... remember apples first logo.
lordonuthin
Feb 17, 07:39 PM
i won't get back to my apartment before april. so another month and half of no output basically unless i manage to get another system.
i just don't know what happened. they were running fine before i left.
btw, congrats on 9 million points!
That is too bad, I am trying to get ssh to work on one of my ubuntu boxes from wich I hope to be able to administer the other systems.
It's called Murphy's law - whatever can go wrong will go wrong... especially when you can't do anything about it.
Thanks. maybe I'll be 10 mil by the end of the month :D
i just don't know what happened. they were running fine before i left.
btw, congrats on 9 million points!
That is too bad, I am trying to get ssh to work on one of my ubuntu boxes from wich I hope to be able to administer the other systems.
It's called Murphy's law - whatever can go wrong will go wrong... especially when you can't do anything about it.
Thanks. maybe I'll be 10 mil by the end of the month :D
ComputersaysNo
Jan 28, 06:24 AM
Is anybody familiar with the story of Bill Caswell? Bill bought a $500 old BMW and became third place in a rally: http://jalopnik.com/5497042/how-a-500-craigslist-car-beat-400k-rally-racers
I love stories like this.:)
I love stories like this.:)
yac_moda
Jul 19, 07:29 PM
All this fear that iPod and MAcs are in a down turn. Apple will blow them away real soon. They don't sleep on their Laurel unless they don't have a choice.
Wonder what will happen to the stock tomorrow?
Too bad im broke and could not buy any.
My guess is it will open UP a great deal, around $4 then drop $1 or 2, 2 hours into the day and then climb to finish up 5 to 6$ :D
Seasonally and VERY consistently AAPL drops from March to the end of sept and then rises strongly from late Aug. to Christmas. Then rises more in Jan. rests in Feb. and quickly and unpredictably peaks in March or May !?!?!?!
Some years you will make %100 playing it this way, every once in a while you might loose %10, when betting makes bets that have BIG upsides and small downsides !!!
Wonder what will happen to the stock tomorrow?
Too bad im broke and could not buy any.
My guess is it will open UP a great deal, around $4 then drop $1 or 2, 2 hours into the day and then climb to finish up 5 to 6$ :D
Seasonally and VERY consistently AAPL drops from March to the end of sept and then rises strongly from late Aug. to Christmas. Then rises more in Jan. rests in Feb. and quickly and unpredictably peaks in March or May !?!?!?!
Some years you will make %100 playing it this way, every once in a while you might loose %10, when betting makes bets that have BIG upsides and small downsides !!!
Mr-Stabby
Apr 12, 09:29 PM
Isn't this utterly fantastic? These are the kinds of updates we used to get before Apple went all iPhone and iPad crazy. Glad to see they are finally giving such love to their Pro customers. Although i imagine this has been in the pipeline for a very long time!
If Apple give me a new Mac Pro to run this on, i will spend my entire years wage on them!
If Apple give me a new Mac Pro to run this on, i will spend my entire years wage on them!
aiqw9182
Mar 24, 02:51 PM
So, without using the supplied windows CD/Driver I can simply plug n' play the 5870 intom my 2009 MacPro and it work?! Heck, if you have done it without issues, then I'm tempted.
Ask for some more info on the Mac Pro board (http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1) or use the search function on MacRumors. My knowledge on it is fairly limited.
Ask for some more info on the Mac Pro board (http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1) or use the search function on MacRumors. My knowledge on it is fairly limited.
toddybody
Mar 24, 01:44 PM
You mean we may finally be able to buy a current gen video card at a comparable price to their windows counterparts?! Am I dreaming? I must be dreaming.. right?
Would be nice:) IDK, the more I think about owning a Pro...Id be better off making a monster hackintosh on 1155 mATX platform (i7 2600k), HD 6970, SSD...the works. In an all aluminum Lian Li case. Now thats my kind of Pro;)
Would be nice:) IDK, the more I think about owning a Pro...Id be better off making a monster hackintosh on 1155 mATX platform (i7 2600k), HD 6970, SSD...the works. In an all aluminum Lian Li case. Now thats my kind of Pro;)
Mattsasa
Mar 24, 02:49 PM
Please don't put an AMD 5XXX series into the new iMacs! :(
Why not????
Why not????
MagnusVonMagnum
Oct 24, 05:22 PM
First off, Consumer Reports makes money by selling subscriptions which means free press is good for them. Sensational popular bad reviews gets them publicity - good reviews get them nothing.
Bullcrap. WTF looks through CR to read bad reports? I look in it to find the BEST performing and quality products, not the worst. I only care about the worst if it was something I was considering at which point I take a much closer look.
Second, the Suzuki Samarai is not a Chinese vehicle - Suzuki is a Japanese company.
I wasn't referring to a specific product, but the fact that most crap comes from China these days (vehicles are one of the few exceptions).
Third, save your political slant for some other forum - we talk tech here - not politics.
Sorry, but EVERYTHING is politics. You cannot discuss economics and manufacturing without bumping into it.
Fourth, hate China much?
I hate their government. They are nuclear armed Communists and Communism goes against most of the things I believe in from all forms of freedom dictatorships. Admittedly corrupt democracies aren't night and day better, but they're still better. You apparently like Communism (so long as it's good for the wallet?)
Fifth, I personally tried to verify Consumer Reports claims in multiple iPhone-4 units to no avail. I'm still holding off for iPhone-5 to save my budget, but all I can say about iPhone-4 is that it's the best phone I've ever seen.
Most people take warnings as warnings. You apparently think the rest of the review (highest rated smart phone ever) doesn't even exist. You'd rather waste your time arguing about a magazine that most people find useful at times.
Bullcrap. WTF looks through CR to read bad reports? I look in it to find the BEST performing and quality products, not the worst. I only care about the worst if it was something I was considering at which point I take a much closer look.
Second, the Suzuki Samarai is not a Chinese vehicle - Suzuki is a Japanese company.
I wasn't referring to a specific product, but the fact that most crap comes from China these days (vehicles are one of the few exceptions).
Third, save your political slant for some other forum - we talk tech here - not politics.
Sorry, but EVERYTHING is politics. You cannot discuss economics and manufacturing without bumping into it.
Fourth, hate China much?
I hate their government. They are nuclear armed Communists and Communism goes against most of the things I believe in from all forms of freedom dictatorships. Admittedly corrupt democracies aren't night and day better, but they're still better. You apparently like Communism (so long as it's good for the wallet?)
Fifth, I personally tried to verify Consumer Reports claims in multiple iPhone-4 units to no avail. I'm still holding off for iPhone-5 to save my budget, but all I can say about iPhone-4 is that it's the best phone I've ever seen.
Most people take warnings as warnings. You apparently think the rest of the review (highest rated smart phone ever) doesn't even exist. You'd rather waste your time arguing about a magazine that most people find useful at times.
DeusInvictus7
Feb 27, 10:26 PM
Finishing my graphic design degree this May. The large intuos might get replaced by a cintiq very soon.
That Razer logo looks sweet on the MBA, I might have to dig mine out of my Naga box and slap it on when my MBA comes later this week.
That Razer logo looks sweet on the MBA, I might have to dig mine out of my Naga box and slap it on when my MBA comes later this week.
Horrortaxi
Apr 15, 12:02 PM
Yes, Will Hunting, you might be smarter than me, but who cares? Are you smarter for knowing who Ernest Satow was? If you don't know who Lubomir Visnovsky is (without Googling) does that make you stupid? None of it matters.
Nobody said that you're stupid or a vain pretender of knowledge. At least nobody posted it. You do seem really defensive though. I only said you had some issues with ignorance, and I still stand by that. It worries me a little that you have to boast and convince us how cool you are. Or is it even us that you're trying to convince?
Nobody said that you're stupid or a vain pretender of knowledge. At least nobody posted it. You do seem really defensive though. I only said you had some issues with ignorance, and I still stand by that. It worries me a little that you have to boast and convince us how cool you are. Or is it even us that you're trying to convince?
designed
Mar 22, 08:23 PM
Congrats to designed for reaching 1 million.
Thanks! It didn't take that long after all. I guess folding with a MP is a bit different from folding with a PS3 and a Core Duo :D
thanks for the links! yes, designed is kicking some butt! i wonder what his times per frame are
I'm assuming that frame times refer to the steps FahCore reports? If that's the case, they seem to be around the 33 minute mark to do the 1% of the bigadv-package.
Thanks! It didn't take that long after all. I guess folding with a MP is a bit different from folding with a PS3 and a Core Duo :D
thanks for the links! yes, designed is kicking some butt! i wonder what his times per frame are
I'm assuming that frame times refer to the steps FahCore reports? If that's the case, they seem to be around the 33 minute mark to do the 1% of the bigadv-package.
Object-X
Nov 28, 03:25 AM
Wow. For someone who seems to have all the answers, you're not reading the rest of this thread very well.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252327
In short, Apple's monitors are for higher-end users. Anyone can go out and get a Dell. Most people do. If you want cheap and easy, you get a Dell monitor.
I noticed that you didn't mention any of the 20" NEC Displays that run much, MUCH higher in price than even Apple's. Now why are they so much more expensive? Are they too high-priced? Vastly overpriced?
There are differences. You'd know that if you took the time to look.
Yes, you are indeed correct. Those are "real" numbers. Numbers that are comparing two different types of monitors.
Next time you wish to present facts, try and present them all instead of just the ones that support your case.
Well, you just made my point better than me. Of the millions of Macs sold, how many are to customers needing correct color and really care about the finer details of the monitor's specs? If you're buying a $2400 + Mac Pro the choice is obvious and you could justify the higher price, but what about the low end?
I have both the Dell and the Apple cinema display 20". The Apple monitor is extremely dim, so much so I'm not buying the superior color argument with that model, it's very noticable; the iMac however is very bright and the colors look much richer. If you want to argue that the Apple monitor is sooo much better with color reproduction and the numbers don't lie, than OK, I'll give you that. But who cares? A very small percentage of Apple's market cares or could even tell the difference.
If Apple has been all about getting "switchers" and trying to persuade Windows users that Apple and OS X is better, than why is Apple ignoring that market with their monitor offering? You said so yourself, these are "PRO" monitors. Because they want you to buy iMacs. That's an extremely limited choice if you ask me. Oh, I can hear the fan boys now, screw you if you don't care about color seperation and the finer details of image quality. Go buy your $hi+ dell and get off of this board.
Apple sells a consumer mini, but not a consumer monitor? Why not? You all are hammering away at the professional quality of this monitor. But I have both the Dell and the Apple and they look about the same to me. Actually, before Apple updated their monitors the 20" looked terrible next to the Dell. (I have both generations) And are the "Pros" who need that color perfection buying 20" monitors? Probably not. 23" and 30" would be my guess. So why have a high priced 20" display?
So all this hupla about color correction is making my point. Apple wants you to buy an iMac and they keep their monitors price high and limit their computer offerings to give you the incentive to buy one. Since that's all they sell they are making a good profit off of them. Don't get me wrong, they are nice computers, beautiful even, but what if I wan't something more flexable? Maybe a little more expandible. My choice is a $600 mini (not too flexable or expandable) or a $2400 Mac Pro. Big Difference. Oh, that $1499 price spot fits nicely with an iMac however. See my point?
If they lower the price of the 20" any more it will cut into their sales of 20" iMacs. And that is why it's hovering close to $700 and not $200 or $300 cheaper. Apple won't make as much money off of a mini/cinema combo as they will off of a 20" iMac; especially if the profit margin on the monitor is razor thin.
So, comfort yourself all you want that you have a "pro" quality monitor. If that makes you feel better parting with $300 then go for it. I doubt you could tell the differnce with both monitors sitting side by side. I have both and I can't realy see a $200 - $300 price justification, at least at the low end. Oh, I'm just a poor consumer, not a "pro", so I should go buy my crappy Dell and be happy. Right? But if Apple really want's to get people to switch in larger numbers they need to offer a little more choice at a competitive price. A nice quality 20" monitor competitvly priced to go with that mini or a mid-range tower. I'm asking Apple to drop their price on their monitors $200 and offer a $1200 - $1500 tower. Is that asking too much?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252327
In short, Apple's monitors are for higher-end users. Anyone can go out and get a Dell. Most people do. If you want cheap and easy, you get a Dell monitor.
I noticed that you didn't mention any of the 20" NEC Displays that run much, MUCH higher in price than even Apple's. Now why are they so much more expensive? Are they too high-priced? Vastly overpriced?
There are differences. You'd know that if you took the time to look.
Yes, you are indeed correct. Those are "real" numbers. Numbers that are comparing two different types of monitors.
Next time you wish to present facts, try and present them all instead of just the ones that support your case.
Well, you just made my point better than me. Of the millions of Macs sold, how many are to customers needing correct color and really care about the finer details of the monitor's specs? If you're buying a $2400 + Mac Pro the choice is obvious and you could justify the higher price, but what about the low end?
I have both the Dell and the Apple cinema display 20". The Apple monitor is extremely dim, so much so I'm not buying the superior color argument with that model, it's very noticable; the iMac however is very bright and the colors look much richer. If you want to argue that the Apple monitor is sooo much better with color reproduction and the numbers don't lie, than OK, I'll give you that. But who cares? A very small percentage of Apple's market cares or could even tell the difference.
If Apple has been all about getting "switchers" and trying to persuade Windows users that Apple and OS X is better, than why is Apple ignoring that market with their monitor offering? You said so yourself, these are "PRO" monitors. Because they want you to buy iMacs. That's an extremely limited choice if you ask me. Oh, I can hear the fan boys now, screw you if you don't care about color seperation and the finer details of image quality. Go buy your $hi+ dell and get off of this board.
Apple sells a consumer mini, but not a consumer monitor? Why not? You all are hammering away at the professional quality of this monitor. But I have both the Dell and the Apple and they look about the same to me. Actually, before Apple updated their monitors the 20" looked terrible next to the Dell. (I have both generations) And are the "Pros" who need that color perfection buying 20" monitors? Probably not. 23" and 30" would be my guess. So why have a high priced 20" display?
So all this hupla about color correction is making my point. Apple wants you to buy an iMac and they keep their monitors price high and limit their computer offerings to give you the incentive to buy one. Since that's all they sell they are making a good profit off of them. Don't get me wrong, they are nice computers, beautiful even, but what if I wan't something more flexable? Maybe a little more expandible. My choice is a $600 mini (not too flexable or expandable) or a $2400 Mac Pro. Big Difference. Oh, that $1499 price spot fits nicely with an iMac however. See my point?
If they lower the price of the 20" any more it will cut into their sales of 20" iMacs. And that is why it's hovering close to $700 and not $200 or $300 cheaper. Apple won't make as much money off of a mini/cinema combo as they will off of a 20" iMac; especially if the profit margin on the monitor is razor thin.
So, comfort yourself all you want that you have a "pro" quality monitor. If that makes you feel better parting with $300 then go for it. I doubt you could tell the differnce with both monitors sitting side by side. I have both and I can't realy see a $200 - $300 price justification, at least at the low end. Oh, I'm just a poor consumer, not a "pro", so I should go buy my crappy Dell and be happy. Right? But if Apple really want's to get people to switch in larger numbers they need to offer a little more choice at a competitive price. A nice quality 20" monitor competitvly priced to go with that mini or a mid-range tower. I'm asking Apple to drop their price on their monitors $200 and offer a $1200 - $1500 tower. Is that asking too much?
zoozx
Sep 6, 07:26 PM
If you can't burn it it will never fly.
People can just join netflix and do there own sampling for much cheaper.
People can just join netflix and do there own sampling for much cheaper.
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