tyroja00
Sep 19, 12:55 AM
Does it even MATTER if Apple keeps up? Do we actually WANT Apple to release a new computer every month when Intel bumps up their chips a few megahertz?
See, it's easy to get lost in the specs war. The Mac Pros came out and I was salivating, even though I have a dual 2.0GHz G5 sitting at home. And then one day, as I was editing some HD footage, it occurred ot me that my G5 here - my now outdated G5 - was editing 1080p high-def footage without so much as a flinch. It was SO fast it was not even necessary at all.
So I really have to ask - does Apple really need to get into that stupid-ass PC specs war? Is it really hurting you guys that Apple has been slow to update? Are you really doing tasks that the current computer lineup cannot do?
It is not the speed that I care about but the 64bit processing. I plan on keeping the thing for a few years and want to take full advantage of any 64bit software on my laptop.
Oh and with the spec wars comes price drops which I also wouldn't mind. We are so use to paying more for our Apples b/c we had no comparison. But, now we can really compare apples to apples. Anything else is just excuses.
However, I am willing to pay more for Apples reliability, ease of use, and lack of numerous viruses. But, not too much more.
See, it's easy to get lost in the specs war. The Mac Pros came out and I was salivating, even though I have a dual 2.0GHz G5 sitting at home. And then one day, as I was editing some HD footage, it occurred ot me that my G5 here - my now outdated G5 - was editing 1080p high-def footage without so much as a flinch. It was SO fast it was not even necessary at all.
So I really have to ask - does Apple really need to get into that stupid-ass PC specs war? Is it really hurting you guys that Apple has been slow to update? Are you really doing tasks that the current computer lineup cannot do?
It is not the speed that I care about but the 64bit processing. I plan on keeping the thing for a few years and want to take full advantage of any 64bit software on my laptop.
Oh and with the spec wars comes price drops which I also wouldn't mind. We are so use to paying more for our Apples b/c we had no comparison. But, now we can really compare apples to apples. Anything else is just excuses.
However, I am willing to pay more for Apples reliability, ease of use, and lack of numerous viruses. But, not too much more.
asiayeah
Aug 25, 06:36 PM
Apple support for me has been nothing but great. This year my household has bought an intel iMac and a macbook. Being revision A I was expecting some sort of problems with them at some point and the problems did come. First I had some serious video problems on the iMac. So, I made an appt using Concierge and it was right on time. So, the genius looked at the problem and in ten mintues told me I needed to have the logic board replaced. So, I left it at the store and picked it up 2 days later. I wasn't glad that I had problems with the mac but their support was great.
Now the macbook was having the dreaded problem of turning off at random times. This one was a bit more tricky. I made my appt just as I did for the iMac and saw the genius. She had to replicate the problem of it turning off at random before she could put it into their system in order to be fixed. Thankfully it turned off within a couple of minutes so she put in the request to have the logic board replaced. However, it took 4 days this time to get it fixed. While I would have loved to have had it fixed in the same time it took to fix the iMac I realized that just wasn't in the cards. It has been fine ever since. Although, a few weeks later the battery started to buldge but they replaced it right away and we were only at the genius bar for around 15 minutes to get a new battery.
After hearing the horror story of my best friend trying to get his Dell fixed I was certainly happy about my experience with Apple. (as far as the dell story goes he still doesn't have it replaced because Dell lost his notebook after he sent it back to them and they are trying to tell him that it was somehow his fault) The people at the genius bar were excellent with good customer service skills. While I realize that some have had experiences that weren't quite as good I thought I would point out that some of our experiences with Apple support have been excellent.
I think you are in the States, aren't you?
Now the macbook was having the dreaded problem of turning off at random times. This one was a bit more tricky. I made my appt just as I did for the iMac and saw the genius. She had to replicate the problem of it turning off at random before she could put it into their system in order to be fixed. Thankfully it turned off within a couple of minutes so she put in the request to have the logic board replaced. However, it took 4 days this time to get it fixed. While I would have loved to have had it fixed in the same time it took to fix the iMac I realized that just wasn't in the cards. It has been fine ever since. Although, a few weeks later the battery started to buldge but they replaced it right away and we were only at the genius bar for around 15 minutes to get a new battery.
After hearing the horror story of my best friend trying to get his Dell fixed I was certainly happy about my experience with Apple. (as far as the dell story goes he still doesn't have it replaced because Dell lost his notebook after he sent it back to them and they are trying to tell him that it was somehow his fault) The people at the genius bar were excellent with good customer service skills. While I realize that some have had experiences that weren't quite as good I thought I would point out that some of our experiences with Apple support have been excellent.
I think you are in the States, aren't you?
epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
rdrr
Nov 28, 07:42 PM
Actually, they do. They also got paid on every blank tape sold when cassettes were big. I think it is crazy for everyone to think that the music industry is greedy when it getting squeezed out of all of their revenue streams. So, Apple makes hundreds of millions off of their back on the itunes site, and a billion off of iPod sales, and they cannot share in the wealth?
It doesn't cost the consumer any more, why wouldn't you want the people who actually make the music you are listening to get compensated?
This debate is stale. People want something for nothing.
If the record labels would stop forcing artist to pump out albums with ten bad songs and only one or two good ones, then maybe I would consider spending more than 15 dollars for a CD.
I don't expect something for nothing, but I do expect quality for every dollar I spend.
It doesn't cost the consumer any more, why wouldn't you want the people who actually make the music you are listening to get compensated?
This debate is stale. People want something for nothing.
If the record labels would stop forcing artist to pump out albums with ten bad songs and only one or two good ones, then maybe I would consider spending more than 15 dollars for a CD.
I don't expect something for nothing, but I do expect quality for every dollar I spend.
addicted44
Mar 26, 12:13 AM
I still don't know what people want on these forums. I am SUBSTANTIALLY more excited about Lion than I was about Leopard or Snow Leopard. I don't care about more eye candy. Versions, autosave and resume are all great features and more importantly they're features non-techies will appreciate even more.
Merging server is damn cool, Mission Control and the improvements to Spaces both look very compelling and I like the interface changes.
Some of the comments on this board are inane.
1) Launchpad is the selling point...Really? You think Versions, Resume, Mission Control, OS wide Full Screen App support are not selling points?
2) $129 is too much. This one cracks me up. Apple is bundling a $500 product into the OS (and other OS based servers are far more expensive) and people think $129 is too much?
3) When has Apple released an OS, and not shown new features on the final release keynote?
Merging server is damn cool, Mission Control and the improvements to Spaces both look very compelling and I like the interface changes.
Some of the comments on this board are inane.
1) Launchpad is the selling point...Really? You think Versions, Resume, Mission Control, OS wide Full Screen App support are not selling points?
2) $129 is too much. This one cracks me up. Apple is bundling a $500 product into the OS (and other OS based servers are far more expensive) and people think $129 is too much?
3) When has Apple released an OS, and not shown new features on the final release keynote?
smiddlehurst
Mar 31, 02:53 PM
Thats not at all what this article is saying. The Android project is still going to be "open source".
Umm, not by Andy Rubin's own definition it's not:
the definition of open: “mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make”
The problem here is Google aren't playing fair with their partners and they really ought to get grief over it. Good lord, remember the absolute storm of hate that went Apple's way when the subscription details were announced? This is actually far worse for those that depend on the Android OS yet geeks are scrambling to praise Google for doing it....
Now here's the thing... at the end of the day this is probably the right move for Android from a consumer point of view. It's likely to make it easier to get a device that you can update and that isn't drowning in crapware. The problem is they should have done it a year ago when the problem first became obvious. They haven't, they've got a LOT of companies heavily invested in Android and now they're radically changing the rules.
Frankly I wonder if something has gone seriously wrong within Google. Remember when 2.1 came out there were strong hints that they were working on separating the core OS from the GUI to allow far easier, almost device independent updates? We've heard virtually nothing about that since. Honeycomb is, by their own admission, a cludge, albeit a cludge with a lot of potential. I can't help but wonder if they've failed to come up with a software solution that'd let them handle fragmentation and keep a true open philosophy and are falling back on this as plan B. I'd also love to know if Amazon making moves into the App Store space and now launching Cloud Player before Google have an equivalent service have them worried. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's conditions in those new partnership deals to make things like introducing new App Stores in the default build a lot harder.
Umm, not by Andy Rubin's own definition it's not:
the definition of open: “mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make”
The problem here is Google aren't playing fair with their partners and they really ought to get grief over it. Good lord, remember the absolute storm of hate that went Apple's way when the subscription details were announced? This is actually far worse for those that depend on the Android OS yet geeks are scrambling to praise Google for doing it....
Now here's the thing... at the end of the day this is probably the right move for Android from a consumer point of view. It's likely to make it easier to get a device that you can update and that isn't drowning in crapware. The problem is they should have done it a year ago when the problem first became obvious. They haven't, they've got a LOT of companies heavily invested in Android and now they're radically changing the rules.
Frankly I wonder if something has gone seriously wrong within Google. Remember when 2.1 came out there were strong hints that they were working on separating the core OS from the GUI to allow far easier, almost device independent updates? We've heard virtually nothing about that since. Honeycomb is, by their own admission, a cludge, albeit a cludge with a lot of potential. I can't help but wonder if they've failed to come up with a software solution that'd let them handle fragmentation and keep a true open philosophy and are falling back on this as plan B. I'd also love to know if Amazon making moves into the App Store space and now launching Cloud Player before Google have an equivalent service have them worried. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's conditions in those new partnership deals to make things like introducing new App Stores in the default build a lot harder.
BWhaler
Jul 14, 03:33 PM
I've never thought much of the relevance of its placement myself - why do you say that? Care to elaborate on why it is "REALLY stupid"?
1. Notice the power plug hole at the top? Now imagine a cord running out of it. Yup, there is a reason why Apple has put it at the bottom.
2. Top heavy.
1. Notice the power plug hole at the top? Now imagine a cord running out of it. Yup, there is a reason why Apple has put it at the bottom.
2. Top heavy.
jeanlain
Apr 11, 08:46 AM
No kidding!
280734
Where's Picasso when you need him? :-)
Avid image was from here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYw4vvr7Aq4
OMG, these drop-down menus! It burns....:eek:
280734
Where's Picasso when you need him? :-)
Avid image was from here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYw4vvr7Aq4
OMG, these drop-down menus! It burns....:eek:
Val-kyrie
Jul 30, 01:22 PM
So are we really going to get ALL of these new toys come WWDC? Leopard preview, Merom laptops, Core2/Woodcrest Mac Pros, Core2 Imacs (oh, and maybe a movie download add to iTunes) That sounds like an awful lot of stuff to cover in such a short period of time. What do people think about timelines for introduction here?
Doubtful. This would leave nothing for September. (I hope this hasn't already been said, but I want to post before reading the other 200+ via modem). My prediction is the debut of Mac Pros, a preview of Leopard and perhaps an iMac update. The Merom chips will not be shipped until the end of Aug., so expect the unveiling of the MBPs in a (slightly) new form factor with 64 bit Core 2 Duo in Sep., along with the silent update of MBs, and an iMac update if they are not updated in Aug. I have not a clue about movie updates or updates to the iPod lines, though by Sep. would be reasonable.
Doubtful. This would leave nothing for September. (I hope this hasn't already been said, but I want to post before reading the other 200+ via modem). My prediction is the debut of Mac Pros, a preview of Leopard and perhaps an iMac update. The Merom chips will not be shipped until the end of Aug., so expect the unveiling of the MBPs in a (slightly) new form factor with 64 bit Core 2 Duo in Sep., along with the silent update of MBs, and an iMac update if they are not updated in Aug. I have not a clue about movie updates or updates to the iPod lines, though by Sep. would be reasonable.
kavika411
Feb 28, 08:20 PM
According to the school's website (http://www.chc.edu/News/2011/February/statement_regarding_jim_st_george/), he was not fired as the OP's article suggests. Rather, his contract was not renewed. AFAIK, adjunct instructors do not enjoy the same privileges as tenured professors. If his contract ran out and was simply not renewed, then that's that, unless it can be argued that the college has some legal obligation to offer a new contract.
But threads like this are above further research. Not sure why you'd want to mess up a perfectly good party.
But threads like this are above further research. Not sure why you'd want to mess up a perfectly good party.
GFLPraxis
Aug 11, 10:39 AM
These iPhone rumours continue to persist. I admit to being a sceptic, but maybe I'm wrong! I just hope that if they do do it, they do it well.
The Intel Mac rumors persisted too.
The Intel Mac rumors persisted too.
toddybody
Mar 22, 02:57 PM
wait, theres other tablets out there? :rolleyes:
borisadmin
Jul 27, 10:52 PM
You are incorrect. The Core 2 family of processors are 64 bit processors.... they support 64 bit integer math, they support load/store using 64 bit virtual addresses (also at least 40 bit of physical), sport 64 bit wide register file, they support the larger register set enabled by EM64T, etc.
Could Shadowfax or Shawnce or someone else who knows describe a little more about the implications of the upgrade from Yonah to Merom? I'm trying to decide whether to get a Macbook or wait, I'm not that worried about the minor speed boost, but I am more concerned about longer term compatibility (say with mac OS or Windows). If there's going to be a point in a couple of years where the difference between Yonah and Merom is the difference between running the latest version of the OS or not, then I might wait. But if it's only speed and heat, I'll probably go for the Yonah (after WWDC) and live with not having the speed and lower heat that the upgrade brings.
Could Shadowfax or Shawnce or someone else who knows describe a little more about the implications of the upgrade from Yonah to Merom? I'm trying to decide whether to get a Macbook or wait, I'm not that worried about the minor speed boost, but I am more concerned about longer term compatibility (say with mac OS or Windows). If there's going to be a point in a couple of years where the difference between Yonah and Merom is the difference between running the latest version of the OS or not, then I might wait. But if it's only speed and heat, I'll probably go for the Yonah (after WWDC) and live with not having the speed and lower heat that the upgrade brings.
Bill McEnaney
Apr 29, 10:03 AM
Labelling birthers as racist, paranoid, or nutters is just pandering to the distraction of all this. The persistence of this "issue" could be more of a logical desire to belittle or erode the political power of the current president; which is akin to schoolyard gossiping, sure, but it's still strangely effective.
The name-calling is childish, too. In fact, you usually hear it from left-wingers.
The name-calling is childish, too. In fact, you usually hear it from left-wingers.
zacman
Apr 19, 03:02 PM
iPhone: 4% of market, 50% of profit
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/10/30/iphone-4-of-market-50-of-profit/
So whats the point of market share if you're not making any money?
Well you can see that with the Mac. About 3% worldwide marketshare but Apple makes tons of money with it.
And eveybody crys tears here when some 5 year old Windows games finally get ported to MacOS. You want that to happen with the iPhone and iOS compared to Android? Fine. But I'm sure 99% of iPhone buyers don't want that scenario.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/10/30/iphone-4-of-market-50-of-profit/
So whats the point of market share if you're not making any money?
Well you can see that with the Mac. About 3% worldwide marketshare but Apple makes tons of money with it.
And eveybody crys tears here when some 5 year old Windows games finally get ported to MacOS. You want that to happen with the iPhone and iOS compared to Android? Fine. But I'm sure 99% of iPhone buyers don't want that scenario.
iliketyla
Mar 31, 02:33 PM
Let the Apple fanboys begin patting each other on the back, and taking something and running wild with it.
By the end of this thread, it'll be impossible to decipher what the original story was about.
By the end of this thread, it'll be impossible to decipher what the original story was about.
Stella
Mar 22, 01:27 PM
Excellent to see more tablets coming on to the market. This is good news for all - competition is great - for all companies and consumers.
Choice and Competition is King.
Choice and Competition is King.
studiomusic
Apr 5, 11:09 PM
Already have my tickets... I was looking forward to Kevin Smith and Philip Bloom, but FCP is a welcome announcement.
Hopefully they'll give a bunch of copies of it for the Supermeet Super Raffle.
Hopefully they'll give a bunch of copies of it for the Supermeet Super Raffle.
twoodcc
Jul 27, 09:59 AM
Assuming August 7 as an announcement date of new systems, the waiting is killer.
yes i hate waiting. but remember, "good things come to those who wait"
yes i hate waiting. but remember, "good things come to those who wait"
2IS
Apr 7, 12:26 AM
I'm getting tired of Apple Mac's being INTEL's BIATCH!
Integrated graphics on a laptop costing THAT MUCH? PLEASE!
Steve Jobs should threaten to switch to AMD/ATI solutions even if just for leverage with Intel to get discreet graphics chips in these machines.
If this is true, this is a pathetic technology compromise in my opinion.
lol... You really think Intel is the reason Apple laptops cost what they do? Really?
Integrated graphics on a laptop costing THAT MUCH? PLEASE!
Steve Jobs should threaten to switch to AMD/ATI solutions even if just for leverage with Intel to get discreet graphics chips in these machines.
If this is true, this is a pathetic technology compromise in my opinion.
lol... You really think Intel is the reason Apple laptops cost what they do? Really?
artpease
Aug 5, 06:14 PM
Point is, without an IR sensor in the display, you wouldn't have the OPTION of hiding the computer away.
Yes, but just my opinion, Apple needs to get over this 'Only new computers get FrontRow' crap and provide a USB repeater. Geez, people aren't buying new computers to get FrontRow, they're buying them to get Intel, so providing FrontRow to legacy systems isn't going to cripple sales! The only error in that opinion might be the mini, both the G4 and Intel minis are so crippled, neither makes any sense in a home theater setting but, providing a USB repeater for the G4 mini might effect a few Intel mini sales.
Yes, but just my opinion, Apple needs to get over this 'Only new computers get FrontRow' crap and provide a USB repeater. Geez, people aren't buying new computers to get FrontRow, they're buying them to get Intel, so providing FrontRow to legacy systems isn't going to cripple sales! The only error in that opinion might be the mini, both the G4 and Intel minis are so crippled, neither makes any sense in a home theater setting but, providing a USB repeater for the G4 mini might effect a few Intel mini sales.
Dr.Gargoyle
Sep 13, 11:05 AM
and this got negative votes because...??????????
All the people that just coughed up $3k for a quad core MacPro.
All the people that just coughed up $3k for a quad core MacPro.
Macsterguy
Apr 27, 08:19 AM
So track me... I'm not ashamed of where I go...
We are giving up our rights just by typing in this forum on the "World Wide Web" because it is World Wide...
This was all started by 2 paranoid people that need to throw away their technology and crawl into a cave with that guy with the long grey beard that is hiding from the world (until he gets caught)...
We are giving up our rights just by typing in this forum on the "World Wide Web" because it is World Wide...
This was all started by 2 paranoid people that need to throw away their technology and crawl into a cave with that guy with the long grey beard that is hiding from the world (until he gets caught)...
Voltes V
Sep 14, 02:51 AM
i think they're coming up with 2 dual octo-core.......
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