twoodcc
Dec 2, 06:51 PM
^ depressing but true. desktop computer hardware taking a back seat to iphones :( sad day
having been to CES, it's about 100x cooler than macworld i must say. it may just be the perfect forum to drum up more business
well apple isn't showing up to macworld anymore, right?
having been to CES, it's about 100x cooler than macworld i must say. it may just be the perfect forum to drum up more business
well apple isn't showing up to macworld anymore, right?
SeaFox
Dec 28, 02:23 AM
Here is your quote SeaFox.
You are an condescending individual and take my post out of context.
You can't please all of the people all of the time.
"I wouldn't hold my breath on the word processing and web surfing. WebTV showed surfing the internet on a TV sucked because trying to read normal-sized text from six feet away was hard, and bumping the text size up would goof up the page layout generally. Same reason word processing would be silly."
I stand by the statement. WebTV failed because at the time everyone had CRT TVs, which are much blurrier than a computer monitor. Even if you are using a new plasma screen set you have to account for how you use your device. One sits in front of their monitor by a couple feet. This makes 12 point text readable. Now, step back from this thread about six feet or so, however far you usually sit from your TV, and you'll see why. Even if you're viewing the screen at the real resolution of the HD set (1920x1080 for the real nice sets) you're still not going to be wanting to read long passages to text from your TV. Kinda like people don't like reading books in their entirety one screen at a time in Acrobat.
When you ask a home entertainment device to perform the functions of a regular computer you're adding all sorts of complexity and starting down a slippery slope. Let's say Apple added the ability to view Word files to the iTV. Someone would complain that they couldn't edit them. Same with iMovie files. Now you have to add that functionality. Then someone would say "well, what about image files? I can already watch my iPhoto library, why can't I do color and brightness/contrast correction?"
This is exactly the same thing that comes up about the iPod and the Apple Phone. Yeah, the iPod has no built-in FM tuner, no voice memo ability, no built in recording ability, built in FM transmitter for the car, ect. And adding these features would make the interface more complicated, when one of the things that makes the iPod such a hit is it's simplicity. Why do current music playing phones suck? Because the player functionality is hidden under a bunch of unintuitive menus, just like most of the other bells and whistles that may have influenced you to buy the phone to begin with. It's the current state of overly complicated interface design that gets people excited about Apple entering the cell phone market.
Edit: Also, one last point. If you put too much functionality into the iTV that is normally relegated to a regular Mac, then charge less for the iTV, you're going to eat into sales of the Mac Mini. Apple wouldn't do this, and this is the main reason I don't think you'll see the ability to open Word files or surf the Net with the iTV, that and it just sounds like a weird feature to have in a set top box.
If you've got your Mini hooked up to your TV and its working good for you I applaud you. The iTV is clearly not aiming for your type of consumer. I've read articles about setting up Minis as PVR's with HD sets, and invariably the indivdulal has some difficulty finding a monitor resolution and refresh rate the HD set will play along with at first, and actual use of the device is hobbled by needing a wireless keyboard or similar. Apple is aiming for the average TV watching consumer with the iTV, who I can tell you from personal experience are not nearly as smart.
You are an condescending individual and take my post out of context.
You can't please all of the people all of the time.
"I wouldn't hold my breath on the word processing and web surfing. WebTV showed surfing the internet on a TV sucked because trying to read normal-sized text from six feet away was hard, and bumping the text size up would goof up the page layout generally. Same reason word processing would be silly."
I stand by the statement. WebTV failed because at the time everyone had CRT TVs, which are much blurrier than a computer monitor. Even if you are using a new plasma screen set you have to account for how you use your device. One sits in front of their monitor by a couple feet. This makes 12 point text readable. Now, step back from this thread about six feet or so, however far you usually sit from your TV, and you'll see why. Even if you're viewing the screen at the real resolution of the HD set (1920x1080 for the real nice sets) you're still not going to be wanting to read long passages to text from your TV. Kinda like people don't like reading books in their entirety one screen at a time in Acrobat.
When you ask a home entertainment device to perform the functions of a regular computer you're adding all sorts of complexity and starting down a slippery slope. Let's say Apple added the ability to view Word files to the iTV. Someone would complain that they couldn't edit them. Same with iMovie files. Now you have to add that functionality. Then someone would say "well, what about image files? I can already watch my iPhoto library, why can't I do color and brightness/contrast correction?"
This is exactly the same thing that comes up about the iPod and the Apple Phone. Yeah, the iPod has no built-in FM tuner, no voice memo ability, no built in recording ability, built in FM transmitter for the car, ect. And adding these features would make the interface more complicated, when one of the things that makes the iPod such a hit is it's simplicity. Why do current music playing phones suck? Because the player functionality is hidden under a bunch of unintuitive menus, just like most of the other bells and whistles that may have influenced you to buy the phone to begin with. It's the current state of overly complicated interface design that gets people excited about Apple entering the cell phone market.
Edit: Also, one last point. If you put too much functionality into the iTV that is normally relegated to a regular Mac, then charge less for the iTV, you're going to eat into sales of the Mac Mini. Apple wouldn't do this, and this is the main reason I don't think you'll see the ability to open Word files or surf the Net with the iTV, that and it just sounds like a weird feature to have in a set top box.
If you've got your Mini hooked up to your TV and its working good for you I applaud you. The iTV is clearly not aiming for your type of consumer. I've read articles about setting up Minis as PVR's with HD sets, and invariably the indivdulal has some difficulty finding a monitor resolution and refresh rate the HD set will play along with at first, and actual use of the device is hobbled by needing a wireless keyboard or similar. Apple is aiming for the average TV watching consumer with the iTV, who I can tell you from personal experience are not nearly as smart.
iJohnHenry
Mar 19, 04:48 PM
It's totally 'legal', so if you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't stop others from doing so.
danielwsmithee
Nov 27, 03:24 PM
I mean absolutely no disrespect in any of my arguments...Same hear. I just find it interesting that you seem to be ignoring the fact that 1 year ago you were willing to pay an approximately $100 markup for SWOP certification, yet you find it completely reasonable for Apple to essentially be charging $300 for it today? I'm about the biggest fan of Apple of anyone but their prices are out of touch on their 20" displays.
Lurchdubious
Nov 26, 01:15 AM
Comp-tac Minotaur holster. (not my pic)
http://www.restrainedfreedom.com/wp-content/uploads/guns/IMG_4193.jpg
http://www.restrainedfreedom.com/wp-content/uploads/guns/IMG_4193.jpg
appleguy123
Mar 19, 05:12 PM
Have you not been informed of DisgraceBook??
No, and I just googled it and it appears to be just a product review site?
To what are you referring?
No, and I just googled it and it appears to be just a product review site?
To what are you referring?
JRM PowerPod
Aug 7, 08:03 AM
Don't taunt him too much, he might kill you once he finds out they are now 64-bit and higher speed!
what about when steve says they have a new case and the 17" has an optional blu-ray drive. and they all have hdmi output. x1800 256/512
he will kill us all
what about when steve says they have a new case and the 17" has an optional blu-ray drive. and they all have hdmi output. x1800 256/512
he will kill us all
OhEsTen
Nov 15, 10:50 AM
How can this get negative votes? In fact, how do a lot of perfectly benign threads get negative votes? Are there just members out there who vote negative on everything?
Actually, it's a little known fact that Steve Ballmer frequents this site.... So I attribute all the negative votes to him clicking the "negative" button until he gets tired.... as you can see he doesn't have very much endurance....
Actually, it's a little known fact that Steve Ballmer frequents this site.... So I attribute all the negative votes to him clicking the "negative" button until he gets tired.... as you can see he doesn't have very much endurance....
Unspeaked
Sep 6, 11:03 AM
Thank God I sold my mini three days ago. It was a Core Duo 1.66Ghz with 1GB RAM. Luckily the buyer's already payed and I'm on my way to the post office now. Phew!!
So it was IDENTICAL to the current top of the line model, except the new one has a measly .17 GHz speed bump and 512MB LESS memory?
Yeah, this new one sure is a leaps and bounds ahead of the one you sold!
:D
So it was IDENTICAL to the current top of the line model, except the new one has a measly .17 GHz speed bump and 512MB LESS memory?
Yeah, this new one sure is a leaps and bounds ahead of the one you sold!
:D
RaceTripper
Jan 6, 04:48 PM
...and started to run roughly at 70,000 miles when idling. Dealer said it was due to my dad putting 87 in the tank when BMW recommends 91/93....There's a reason BMW says to use high-octane fuel. If you don't use the recommended fuels and fluids and the engine starts to get rough, you can't entirely blame BMW.
I run my BMW and MINI on 91/93 always. My 70K miles 330ci purrs like a kitten.
I run my BMW and MINI on 91/93 always. My 70K miles 330ci purrs like a kitten.
Gem�tlichkeit
Apr 26, 01:58 PM
apple created a storefront they called "app store"
amazon creates a store front that does the same t hing called the "appstore"
apple wins in this situation.
amazon creates a store front that does the same t hing called the "appstore"
apple wins in this situation.
kingtj
Aug 29, 01:06 PM
I think you hit on the key thing here! The target audience for the Mac Mini is starting to break down into 2 camps. One is the niche user who wants it for a homebrew media center setup. They like the faster, more powerful Minis - even if they cost a few hundred bucks extra.
The far larger target group, however, is the home user on a budget. The people I know who have interest in a Mini as their next computer are currently using 1-2 generation old Windows PCs that they bought used to begin with a couple years ago. They need to type letters, surf the Inet and check their email. They want to download pictures out of a digital camera and print copies, but they don't need fast 3D graphics for games. (They're the types who enjoy the little web-based games from GameHouse or PopCap, or Windows Solitaire.)
They like the promise of greater "ease of use" with OS X and a Mac, and less threat of viruses. They also like the small form-factor case, since they tend to stick their computer on a small desk or card table, as opposed to a nice computer desk purchased just for that purpose.
These people want a low price... not a "next generation CPU". I actually think it would be good if Apple could use the Mini as their system that helps them dispose of "old stock" spare parts and start selling it for a $349.95 and up price point.
Hope they bring back the $499 price point, Merom or not
The far larger target group, however, is the home user on a budget. The people I know who have interest in a Mini as their next computer are currently using 1-2 generation old Windows PCs that they bought used to begin with a couple years ago. They need to type letters, surf the Inet and check their email. They want to download pictures out of a digital camera and print copies, but they don't need fast 3D graphics for games. (They're the types who enjoy the little web-based games from GameHouse or PopCap, or Windows Solitaire.)
They like the promise of greater "ease of use" with OS X and a Mac, and less threat of viruses. They also like the small form-factor case, since they tend to stick their computer on a small desk or card table, as opposed to a nice computer desk purchased just for that purpose.
These people want a low price... not a "next generation CPU". I actually think it would be good if Apple could use the Mini as their system that helps them dispose of "old stock" spare parts and start selling it for a $349.95 and up price point.
Hope they bring back the $499 price point, Merom or not
rezenclowd3
Jan 10, 11:56 AM
I didn't even notice my car had the German flag colors on the grill till I paid for it and stopped at a coffee shop to admire my toy:o
The 1 serious is VERY cool; I am glad it is a sub-compact size once again, though I wish it was not as tall.
The 1 serious is VERY cool; I am glad it is a sub-compact size once again, though I wish it was not as tall.
GekiRed
Oct 2, 02:06 PM
I got a Gear4 protective shell for the iPod Touch that I'm waiting to be delivered by my friend in the US today from John Lewis in Liverpool as the Apple Store which is a few seconds walk away didn't have any 4G accessories in stock!
It cost me �19.99 and hopefully will do a good job in protecting it until I sell it on eBay next year. I probably won't bother with getting a protective skin.
It cost me �19.99 and hopefully will do a good job in protecting it until I sell it on eBay next year. I probably won't bother with getting a protective skin.
Manic Mouse
Aug 20, 06:44 AM
But you know what I mean and you cannot possible say that they are easy inpurt methods for even moderately extended use. Or are you?
I'm getting a little confused, are you trying to say keyboards are not easy input methods? QWERTY keyboards are FULL keyboards like the ones you and I are using to type in these forums. I completely agree with you that phone/PSP-esque multi-press solutions are not good for extended use, which is why I think the MYLO is such a good example of what can be done with a "portable WiFi" device because it has a full keyboard.
The iPod would continue to sell "pure" (and I know I'm being contradictory as my original 1Gen iPod is a much different machine than my vid iPod but we're talking of the iPod as a basic walkman-type device) as there will always be demand for a music/media player at a fairly reasonably price. Either through attrition, improvements to current features (bigger screens, easier input methods, color screens, longer battery life, new battery types, etc) there will ALWAYS be demand for the iPod.
As you point out, the current iPod isn't a "pure" machine either. Apple have realised that they have to continually offer new things and more functionality to continue to sell and tempt existing customers to upgrade. As a music player my 4G iPod is more than sufficient: It has a nice enough size, decent enough battery life, 40Gb of space and music will not sound any better no matter how bigger the screen is. If the iPod is only to be a "pure" walkman then there is no reason for me to ever buy a new iPod unless it breaks, which is bad for Apple. Apple realise this, and validate my point by adding extra features to the iPod like photo and video support. Things like a web browser, IM etc are also just natural evolutions of the device.
Using your reasoning, why not add all these features and more to every TV on the market cuz, "Hey, pure machines are going to be extinct soon. Everybody has a TV so we're not going to be selling any more pretty soon... Let's add keyboards and webcams to the remotes. make 'em with wireless net access, hell, throw in Vista and a dock for the refrigerator to show you how much beer is left so you don't have to get up!!!" That's not what happens. Improvements come and are incorporated and even stick around if people like them or are weeded out in the next model. But those improvements are all related to the TV viewing experience. Remember webTV? and that was only offered as a separate add-on if memory serves.
Actually that's exactly what's happening. TV's now are having HDD's built in, PC's are having media centre's built in. Here in the UK, with the BBC, the difference between TV and computer are being blurred. A few minutes ago I watched a TV show on this computer steamed from the BBC.
You can innovate wothout mucking about with a winner by adding a battery draining
Well all the things I'm proposing are software, not hardware, features. So they should have minimal effect on battery life. The new iPod will have a large screen and WiFi regardless of whether it can surf the net/IM/email, and those are the battery draining features.
If apple feels there is a market for what some members of this forum are calling for and said market is large enough the smart move seems to me to be a new device along with that device's new profit stream, limit it's ability to cannibalize your other products in any large way. You get the idea. You don't need to make the iPod the be-all end-all device. In fact, I think if you did, you'd lose market share to other devices without the bloat.
But that is exactly what Apple are doing: When the ipod launched it was nothing more than an MP3 player yet the current iPods are evolving into the "be-all-and-end-all" device I'm suggesting: They play games, they have a calander, they show notes, they play videos, they display photos. Has Apple lost market share by offering these things? Or would they have lost market share if they had not offered them?
And precisely what other Apple product sales would a MYLO iPod cannibalise? What competing product does Apple offer?
And the argument that no one wants a "utility belt" with a million devices each dedicated to one function just doesn't hold water with me. I carry a lot of gear. A laptop, a comm device of some sort and my iPod would do anything I need to do as a civilian back in the world. Obviously I carry much more here as I have the desire to make it back to the real world but that's not what the real market is.
Like I said in my previous post, the mobile phone market (and what Apple have done with added functionality to the iPod) shows the exact opposite trend. I'd much rather have a MYLO iPod than cart a laptop and an iPod around with me EVERYWHERE I go.
But maybe I'm the oddd man out in this argument. I hope not but I have ben wrong once or twice. My wife says so.
Women are always right. Or so my mother tells me... :p
I don't believe that the next iPod will be a MYLO-esque device, but eventually it will offer all that functionality.
I'm getting a little confused, are you trying to say keyboards are not easy input methods? QWERTY keyboards are FULL keyboards like the ones you and I are using to type in these forums. I completely agree with you that phone/PSP-esque multi-press solutions are not good for extended use, which is why I think the MYLO is such a good example of what can be done with a "portable WiFi" device because it has a full keyboard.
The iPod would continue to sell "pure" (and I know I'm being contradictory as my original 1Gen iPod is a much different machine than my vid iPod but we're talking of the iPod as a basic walkman-type device) as there will always be demand for a music/media player at a fairly reasonably price. Either through attrition, improvements to current features (bigger screens, easier input methods, color screens, longer battery life, new battery types, etc) there will ALWAYS be demand for the iPod.
As you point out, the current iPod isn't a "pure" machine either. Apple have realised that they have to continually offer new things and more functionality to continue to sell and tempt existing customers to upgrade. As a music player my 4G iPod is more than sufficient: It has a nice enough size, decent enough battery life, 40Gb of space and music will not sound any better no matter how bigger the screen is. If the iPod is only to be a "pure" walkman then there is no reason for me to ever buy a new iPod unless it breaks, which is bad for Apple. Apple realise this, and validate my point by adding extra features to the iPod like photo and video support. Things like a web browser, IM etc are also just natural evolutions of the device.
Using your reasoning, why not add all these features and more to every TV on the market cuz, "Hey, pure machines are going to be extinct soon. Everybody has a TV so we're not going to be selling any more pretty soon... Let's add keyboards and webcams to the remotes. make 'em with wireless net access, hell, throw in Vista and a dock for the refrigerator to show you how much beer is left so you don't have to get up!!!" That's not what happens. Improvements come and are incorporated and even stick around if people like them or are weeded out in the next model. But those improvements are all related to the TV viewing experience. Remember webTV? and that was only offered as a separate add-on if memory serves.
Actually that's exactly what's happening. TV's now are having HDD's built in, PC's are having media centre's built in. Here in the UK, with the BBC, the difference between TV and computer are being blurred. A few minutes ago I watched a TV show on this computer steamed from the BBC.
You can innovate wothout mucking about with a winner by adding a battery draining
Well all the things I'm proposing are software, not hardware, features. So they should have minimal effect on battery life. The new iPod will have a large screen and WiFi regardless of whether it can surf the net/IM/email, and those are the battery draining features.
If apple feels there is a market for what some members of this forum are calling for and said market is large enough the smart move seems to me to be a new device along with that device's new profit stream, limit it's ability to cannibalize your other products in any large way. You get the idea. You don't need to make the iPod the be-all end-all device. In fact, I think if you did, you'd lose market share to other devices without the bloat.
But that is exactly what Apple are doing: When the ipod launched it was nothing more than an MP3 player yet the current iPods are evolving into the "be-all-and-end-all" device I'm suggesting: They play games, they have a calander, they show notes, they play videos, they display photos. Has Apple lost market share by offering these things? Or would they have lost market share if they had not offered them?
And precisely what other Apple product sales would a MYLO iPod cannibalise? What competing product does Apple offer?
And the argument that no one wants a "utility belt" with a million devices each dedicated to one function just doesn't hold water with me. I carry a lot of gear. A laptop, a comm device of some sort and my iPod would do anything I need to do as a civilian back in the world. Obviously I carry much more here as I have the desire to make it back to the real world but that's not what the real market is.
Like I said in my previous post, the mobile phone market (and what Apple have done with added functionality to the iPod) shows the exact opposite trend. I'd much rather have a MYLO iPod than cart a laptop and an iPod around with me EVERYWHERE I go.
But maybe I'm the oddd man out in this argument. I hope not but I have ben wrong once or twice. My wife says so.
Women are always right. Or so my mother tells me... :p
I don't believe that the next iPod will be a MYLO-esque device, but eventually it will offer all that functionality.
Consultant
Apr 26, 01:40 PM
My first experience with widgets was with Konfabulator on OS X 10.3. There may have been other examples before konfabulator but from my memory, Apple didn't invent widgets.
Matts Macintosh describes 1984 Mac System 1 comes with dash-board like widgets. Video:
http://obamapacman.com/2011/04/1984-mac-os-system-1-gui-apps-video/
Matts Macintosh describes 1984 Mac System 1 comes with dash-board like widgets. Video:
http://obamapacman.com/2011/04/1984-mac-os-system-1-gui-apps-video/
Hraggleblarg
Sep 29, 10:41 PM
Every time I go by CR's reviews, I make a terrible purchase... I wonder what that says.
Tonsko
Jan 6, 05:57 AM
http://www.zen11481.zen.co.uk/Pictures/R32/r32_nearside_front_small.jpg
Sorry...didn't realise the pic was so large. thought the forum might resize it. Here's a smaller version. Anyway. My beloved .:R32 :)
Sorry...didn't realise the pic was so large. thought the forum might resize it. Here's a smaller version. Anyway. My beloved .:R32 :)
Eraserhead
Mar 20, 06:13 PM
Like homeopathy, religion can encourage one to do nothing of value ('let's pray for Japan', 'let's try to cure cancer with just water') rather than something physical which actually has an effect. It could be construed as being dangerous and damaging in that sense.
But like homeopathy religion can achieve positive things too.
But like homeopathy religion can achieve positive things too.
KingYaba
Jul 14, 11:56 AM
PS3 Consoles will cost 500-600 bucks. 400 bucks cheaper than a blu ray dvd player :) So I bet people could buy that as an alternative to read your blu ray movies. Plus I bet gaming on it will be totally awesome.
chinesechikn
Mar 26, 08:19 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)
lordonuthin
May 4, 07:14 PM
interesting. well i might get a mac pro someday. my homebuilt machine is a big hassle and i'm not there to work on it. i would rather have a computer that i can fold and use regularly
Building your own is fun but can be a real pain sometimes, especially if you use Linux :eek:
Building your own is fun but can be a real pain sometimes, especially if you use Linux :eek:
Multimedia
Aug 28, 08:10 PM
I still can't decide between this setup and a 20" iMac (educ discount) for my TV requirements... hmm.. the iMac's audio input isn't optical so that may swing it towards the mini.Keeping components separate is much wiser. You can keep the 24" Screen when you upgrade the mini in future. iMac is a problem when either screen or computer break or become power obsolete. 23/24" screen is NATIVE HD Resolution 1920 x 1200 (1080) - not so the iMac 20".
captmatt
Mar 25, 03:56 PM
Oh man---I got the iPad to get the kids off the TV. Now I'm going to have to get another TV!
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